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Anime News Network/Protoculture Addicts Interview

with: Chris Macdonald and Claude J. Pelletier

Interview by: Matthew Anderson and Stephanie Costello

PAST PRESENT FUTURE

Late in 2004, Anime News Network, a popular anime-based news site, announced that it was merging with the long running print magazine Protoculture Addicts. This partnership sent waves throughout the anime community, and introduced a new player in the ever competitive world of print media.

Via private online chat, Editor In Chief Matthew Anderson and Assistant Editor Stephanie Costello interviewed; Chris Macdonald, Editor in Chief at ANN, and Claude J. Pelletier, Publisher and Editor In Chief of "Protoculture Addicts". We looked at how the two came together, the difficulties and triumphs they have experienced, and the future of anime in America.

The interview was conducted on 3 February 2005.

PAST:

DVJ Interview: Chris then Claude, please tell us a little bit about your selves and the organizations you represent.

Chris Macdonald: Hmmm... well, I'm the editor in Chief of Anime News Network and the publisher of Anime News Network's Protoculture Addicts. By profession I'm actually a network engineer, and the publishing business came as a result of a hobby, or a pair of hobbies actually. I've been working on Anime News Network since May 2000, it was originally just a hobby that I had intended to put 10-15 hours a week into, but it grew really fast (300% in year one, 200% every year since) and it became too time consuming to do part time.

Stephanie Costello: What were those hobbies?

CM: Those hobbies were Anime and computers. I wanted to make an anime website for fun, but instead I ended up taking over ANN, which had been started by Justin Sevakis. Justin's a really impressive guy, a lot of accomplishments to be proud of, and at such a young age. He founded ANN when he was... 18 I believe. When he was working at CPM, people didn't believe that he was the founder of ANN.

STEPH: Really?

CM: Yup. I mentioned it to one of his co-workers, and the guy said "Really. He told us that but we didn't believe him."

STEPH: Chris, how did you become involved in ANN?

CM: By accident. I had started my own (now defunct) website, and in order to get a bit of publicity for it I wrote an editorial for ANN back in March 2000. ANN's then editor in chief, Isaac Alexander, was going through a bit of a tough time and didn't have time to commit to ANN and his con (Sakura-con) and was letting the site slide. So I spoke to Justin and asked him if George Phillips and I could take ANN over. Justin and Isaac were both okay with the idea and very supportive. The rest is history...

CM: I'm done. Claude's Turn.

Claude Pelletier: I started PA as a hobby while working on my Master thesis. Like for Chris, it soon become very time consuming. I was stalling on my PhD so I decided to drop and work on the magazine full time.

STEPH: What were you studying?

CP: Roman history. I was working on the biography of emperor Lucius Verus, included in the corpus of the Historia Augusta. I've always been a big sci-fi fan and was already publishing a fanzine, in French, about science-fiction.

DVJ Interview: It was Robotech that got you into anime?

CP: Yes, it made me realize that all those cool shows I was watching when I was a kid were Japanese animation. So I started researching the subject.

STEPH: In the days before the internet, how daunting of a task was that?

CP: It was difficult. I had to look for books, contact people by mail, etc. The first anime that I bought was a tape of Megazone 23 part 2 that I ordered from Books Nippan in California for about $200! There was also some information about anime in general in the first Robotech Art book, that helped me started the research. After that there were the first conventions.

DVJ Interview: So, how did ANN and PA meet, and why did you decide to merge?

CP: Chris, go first.

CM: Well, I'd known about PA for a long time. Back in the late 80s and early 90s I played the Palladium Robotech game, and we picked up PA from time to time. That was my first introduction to it. Then when I became involved with ANN, Claude e-mailed me to say that he was also in Montreal, and that if we ever needed anything, we should give him a shout.

After that I met up with Claude a few times at anime conventions and at the Fantasia Film Festival in Montreal. And when the Anime Guide came out, it became an essential tool for me. Best anime source book available. When I started working on ANN full time in 2003, the idea of one day having a magazine started to catch hold in my mind.

Actually, I think the idea is older than that, but thinking about it as a potentiality, not a dream, started in 2003. After a while, it occurred to me that PA was the best route for this. Becoming involved with an established magazine has obvious benefits over starting from scratch... We'd talked a bit with other larger magazines, but PA was the most attractive option.

I didn't want ANN to be a minority partner or become a subsidiary of any other company. Also, in terms of the way we look at what we do, PA is most like ANN. We're geared towards the same audience, it wouldn't make sense for ANN to be writing content for adults, and co-operating with a magazine geared towards children. Finally, in the summer of 2004 the possibility became a financial reality, so I approached Claude. I read all the anime magazines on the market now, and I enjoy most of them, but I enjoy PA the most., and I respect Claude for what he's done over the past 18 years. So there's no other magazine and editor that I would want to work with more...

DVJ Interview: So, Claude, anything to add to that?

CP: For my part, with the bad economy, the stronger competition, the lack of promotion, the magazine was losing ground and I was getting tired. I was considering finding another job and continue PA online. Then Chris contacted me and it was salvation! ANN provide a bigger staff and it is easier to make promotion with the help of Chris.

DVJ Interview: So, the two groups are working together, on both ends, print and internet?

CP: Yep.

CM: And we're hiring some full time staff to handle sales & marketing...

DVJ Interview: Sounds like ANN is doing good in the finance side or is it the pooling of resources from both teams?

CM: Right now we're just starting to collaborate. There will be a lot more going back & forth between the two as we progress.

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PRESENT:

DVJ Interview: Why do you feel ANN's Protoculture Addicts can succeed in a marketplace that is so competitive?

CM:: To be successful in any market, you need a good product. PA is just that, a good product. Unfortunately that's not always enough. Plenty of good companies fail. But with ANN, we've got regular readership in the six digits. So as long as PA is a good product that would interest ANN readers, without being redundant with ANN, the magazine has awesome potential.

DVJ Interview: But ANN's readership is online. How do you translate that into magazine sales?

CM: Technology isn't at a point yet where the average person is reading a website on the bus/metro in the plane and so on. As much of a technophile as I am, you have to respect that paper publications aren't redundant yet. Perhaps when you can buy foldable tablets that fit in your back pocket and expand to 8.5x11 and can download at a good speed over the air, then paper pubs will die, but right now, there's plenty of times when I'd rather be reading a magazine than lugging around my laptop. I'm sure that a good portion of our readers feel the same way, even if they hadn't thought about it.

STEPH: Do you feel that people still don't trust the internet?

CM: No, for the most part I think that's a thing of the past.

CP: It is not as much a question of trust than a question of being practical. You simply cannot, yet, bring the internet everywhere you go.

CM: Some people still respect printed publications more, but for the most part, people recognize that there are trustworthy websites that are worth their time. Being partnered with a magazine certainly helps our respectability and trustworthiness. Being affiliated with PA has direct benefits on the ANN website, not just the other way around.

STEPH: One of the main drawbacks of print is that the news is old by the time the magazine is printed. How do you plan to address that?

CP: The news is just a small part of PA. Reviews and longer articles is the most important part. That's the benefit of being both online and in print.

CM: This (question) is still being determined, (and) we're running a survey only open to PA readers. I expect to find that they're going to want the news presented in an editorialized / compiled format. For example, I just posted news about BEI co-producing Eureka 7, but the whole details aren't available yet. When people read the news section of PA#83, they'll be given more details all in one article, along with some editorial. Of course, the news is just a small part of the magazine.

DVJ Interview: So, sort of tease them on ANN, and fill them in on the details in an issue of PA.

CM: Hmm, not really. I'm not going to hold ANN back for PA's benefit. I want both my products to be as good as they can be. Both will do what they do to the best of their ability.

CP: Also, as I often say and people don't believe me, there are still people who don't use the internet. A print publication is their only source of news...

CM: Yes, Claude has a very good point. Not everyone is online to the same extent. And there are even some who aren't online at all.

STEPH: For those that aren't online, what kind of changes to PA can they expect?

CM: Since Claude's the person that actually puts PA together, I think he can answer that best.

CP: At first, more variety due to the influx of new collaborators. With time, better layout and more color. The survey will help us determine what the readers would like to see and we'll do our best to provide it.

DVJ Interview: What were some of the issues you encountered during the merger?

CP: It was relatively simple. Chris any comments?

CM: Things went pretty smoothly with issue 82. There's a lot I still need to learn.

STEPH: Will PA go glossy?

CP: It will go glossy again (we were for a couple of issues) as soon as it is possible. But our priority goes to the content. We will improve the look slowly.

CM: ANN's involvement has made a bit more work for Claude in some respects, but as we all get used to each other, I think that extra work will more or less disappear. In terms of look, there's the obvious wish list. Full color, glossy with some new layout work.

Those are all goals, but they come second to the goal of putting out the best content, and in steps.

CP: And a new cover design eventually.

CM: We might move to 50% color, or black and white gloss first. We know where we want to be in 24 months, but we're still working out all the details about how were going to get there.

STEPH: Are there any plans to change the bi-monthly publication schedule?

CM: It's a very definite possibility.

CP: It is in our project.

DVJ Interview: In the past, many readers felt that PA often missed promised delivery dates, due to printing issues or missed deadlines. In the forum, PA has countered that often these problems do not exist; it is simply due to being a bi-monthly publication.

CP: Yes, I know. It was difficult with a very small staff. Any little problems was causing delays.

DVJ Interview: So, do you feel that the increased tempo will improve or fix this perception?

CM: Fix.

CP: Well the magazine has always (save a few exception) been release every two months, more or less two weeks. When you cumulate several two-weeks delays, at the end of the years it seems a lot.

CM: It's very important for us to make sure that we're getting the magazine out on time, and that people receive the magazine when they expect it.

CP: Now we aim at being on time as a priority.

CM: I mentioned earlier that some things might take a bit of extra time to do right now, but what I didn't mention was that other portions of the magazine are being done quicker because either different people are doing them, or automated processes are doing them.

DVJ Interview: Like?

CM: Well, I do the news section of the magazine. Anime News is what I do, so me writing it up in an editorialized and collated format for the magazine is only logical. That's one less section for Claude to do himself.

CP: Also, before I was doing everything: layout, contact advertising, accounting, shipping, etc. Now, all the business side is taken care by Chris, so I can concentrate on production.

CM: I have management experience from my IT work, which has greatly benefited ANN.. There's a lot to do, so just like anyone I can get a bit frazzled around the edges, but the experience helps me keep everything together and plan. With the early stages of ANN behind us, we're now able to expand the staff, which will give everyone more opportunity to focus.

STEPH: ANN picked PA because of "a focus on substance over pretty glossy pages and advertisement dollars". You stated that you do want to go glossy. Do you plan to minimize advertisers?

CM: If you pick up any Anime magazine on the market and count the pages you'll find that they're an average of 35% to 50% ads. Take a 100 page magazine (including covers), it's probably only 60 pages of content (I'm counting covers and TOC as content) and full page pictures as content. The other 40 pages are ads. The last issue of PA was 76 pages (Is that right Claude?)

CP: Yes

CM: 9 pages of ads, 67 pages of content. I'd like to get 9-11 pages of ads in every issue, and increase the page count a bit. I don't want readers feeling like they're paying for more ads than content.

CP: That about 12%

CM: 12% is a good ratio. 40% isn't in my honest opinion. We also put more content on a page, in terms of text, than other magazines do. But that's a subjective opinion. For some people, full page pictures are worth a million words. While we do intend to "spruce it up a bit", PA will be more about written content than eye candy.

DVJ Interview: Will the 12% advertising be enough to support the added demands of a print publication?

CM: Yes

CP: Chris said he was aiming at 9-11 pages of ads. That would represents 15%.

DVJ Interview: Will money from ANN be used to support PA?

CM: Protoculture has been given funds in order to grow and improve. But the goal is to turn it into a profitable entity on its own.

DVJ Interview: How soon do you envision that happening?

CM: its already happening. If you ask me, the current issue of PA shows improvement, and circulation is up over the previous issue.

CM: Oh, you mean profitability...

DVJ Interview: yes

CM: Well, we have a certain amount of money, and a certain period we'd like that money to be spent over. If PA was to do better than expected and become profitable sooner, we'd just take that money and spend it on further development of the magazine. We're not talking about a 1 or 2 issue investment here, but the exact details I'd rather keep private.

DVJ Interview: Do you feel this will help counter some of the criticism that ANN is geared more toward generating advertising dollars?

CM:I've never heard that criticism. If ANN was geared towards ad money, it wouldn't look like it does now. There are plenty of other anime websites with a lot more ads per page. I've turned down advertisers who wanted to pay a lot of money for things we didn’t want to provide (second banner, pops, interstitials, etc…). If money was my goal, I'd have stayed in IT.

STEPH: If someone wanted to work for ANN or PA, what skills should they possess? What would an entry-level position be?

CM: That would depend on what they were hired for. Claude what would you envision an entry level job at PA as ?

CP: Good writing skills, a good knowledge of the anime industry a plus. Not necessary a fan.

DVJ Interview: According to your press release, you say that Protoculture Addicts "covers all styles and genres of anime and caters to the interests of both beginners and otaku.", yet in the very same press release and earlier in this interview, you say that PA is "a magazine that adult anime fans can look to with out feeling like they're reading something written for twelve-year-olds".

CM: "covers all styles and genres of anime and caters to the interests of both beginners and otaku." Says nothing about age.

CP: That just say that we won't limit ourselves to any genres and readership

CM: But I shouldn't count out younger readers. There are lots of younger people that are interested in reading more mature writing but we're not dumbing down or kiddifying the content for children. The result should be happier adult readers, with more self respect...

DVJ Interview: It just seems like you are excluding a large percent of the younger readers by your remarks about "reading something written for twelve-year-olds" as many new fans are under the age of 18

CP: No, it just says that we are treating our readers with respects, whatever their age.

CM: Claude said it best.

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FUTURE:

DVJ: Where do you see ANN and PA in 5 years?

CM: I'm very interested in Claude's answer since I haven't asked him. I'll answer after him...

CP: I just see them the same. Just better and stronger. I don't expect any radical changes. And you, Chris?

CM: Much sooner that five years from now, I'd like to see ANN and PA as a small company of full time, professional staff. Editors, and such. Less than 10 people, with a good stable of competent and loyal freelance contributors. As I said earlier, I want to be giving back to people as much as they put in, and I'd like for as many of those people to be people that we've worked with to get where we are now.

I want ANN and the magazine to continue in the same vein they are now, only better. ANN is already very respected and very well known, but I'd really like that respect to be the same kind of respect people have for the big trade magazines in other industries.

We have various expansion plans, but none of those are goals unto themselves. They're just ways of offering more to our readers, and offering ourselves to more readers.

STEPH: How do you expect amine's role in American subculture to change over the next five years?

CM: Toughie.

CP: Yes, a tough one.

CM: The exposure of anime should continue to grow, but not everything in the industry is rosy right now...

CP: Anime will probably be more mainstream, but it has a tough test to pass first.

CM: The industry itself could change very drastically over the next couple of years, and that in turn would effect fandom.

CP: There is a big risk of saturation of the market in both anime and manga industry.

CM: Hopefully, anime will just become more popular, with more people enjoying it, and more really good anime being produced. Hopefully we'll still be going to anime cons, and we'll still be seeing anime put out by the same companies that we already know & love

CP: The market might diminish a little before stabilizing

CM: But certain factors are pretty hard to forecast.

CP: But there will always be a core of hard fan.

CM: Yes, just like with Sci-fi, there will always be the core fans. And I think there will always be a market for them. And activities for them.

DVJ Interview: Like the influx of Japanese companies directly entering the US market? What factor do you think that will play?

CM: It could play a huge factor.

CP: It changes the dynamic between the existing company, but for the fans it does change much. It just make easier to import the titles.

CM: Or a very small one, already Bandai, Geneon, and Viz belong to Japanese companies. Manga and now FUNimation belong to larger corporations, but none of that really affects the fan right now.

CP: It just a sign of maturation of the industry

CM: Well, it doesn't affect the fan's activities. It does change the way titles come to market. For example, "licensing" is changing drastically. And this is affecting the whole fansub side of fan activity but other fan activities remain largely unchanged. You also have to ponder the possibility of bigger involvement from major studios. Sony, Disney, DreamWorks, etc...

CM: I do think we're going to see more simultaneous releases. The industry needs to do that to protect itself...

DVJ Interview: Do you think that changes in licensing will end the fan subbing world?

CM: End is a strong word...

CP: There will always be some sort of fan subbing

CM: I think perhaps fansubbers are going to get an opportunity to return to their roots.

CM: Fansubs now are about getting the latest title out first. If all the big titles are being released near simultaneously, there won't be as much interest in doing that... except for those that look to fansubs as a way to save money.

CP: They also play a role in the market, introducing the fan to titles. As long as they keep it to a few episodes it should not be too troublesome.

CM: But the US market isn't going to catch up to the Japanese market for a long time. There will still be some titles that will take a long time to come to market here, and that's where the fansubbers can really contribute.

CM: Some of those titles might never come to market unless fansubbers get involved.

CP: There might be more co-production.

CM: I think co-production will become the norm. Statistically its already pretty close.

CP: But so far, I've not been much impressed by co-production...

DVJ Interview: Like the "Tokyo Tribes" movie co produced by MTV?

CM: Tokyo Tribes is a good example of one type of co-production. Don't forget that ADV co-produces a lot of titles. Geneon USA is involved with titles directly as well as through its parent and sibling companies, likewise with BEI. Co-production is one of the ways that the Japanese market is able to deal with its own financial limitations. That market is saturated, it need foreign investment to grow...

DVJ Interview: You think we will see more shows like D.I.C.E?

CM: Well, D.I.C.E. isn't a co-production. It's an American company (albeit a subsidiary of a Japanese company) paying a Japanese company to produce something to its spec. Its a legal technicality, BEI owns DICE, end of story. They didn't "license" it.

DVJ Interview: So, do either of you have anything to say to all the hard core ANN and PA supporters out there?

CM: Thanks! Hopefully we'll continue to please you.

CP: And keep giving us your support!

CM: Yeah, that's very important. We're doing well and growing, but you asked us about where ANN and PA might be in 5 years, well that won't happen without the support of our readers. We don't "have it made" just yet!

DVJ Interview: Stephanie and I want to thank you both for taking time out for this interview.

STEPH: Thank you!

CP: It is a pleasure.

CM: Thanks for the opportunity.

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